>> CIA & u <<

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>> CIA & u <<

Post by NoNo »

only really applies to those living in europe

From reading the paper, and news, the Irish minister for justice has recently signed a eu wide treaty with the United States, which now gives certain rights to the CIA. This bill will allow the CIA to view any of ur personal records, bank statements etc. It also allows them to come over here and interrogate you.

On the interrogation issue there are some points I heard on the radio.

- you may not have the right to have a lawyer present
- if you choose to say nothing during the interrogation, they can use that in it-self as evidence.

and more disturbingly, and if true a serious blow to human rights, is if the cia deem you to be what they call "an enemy to the state" then under the Bush Administrations new laws, you are not 100% protected by the geneva convention as they have the right to torture you....perhaps one of u americans can try and see if thats true :P

Disturbing eh?
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Post by Comie »

gimme a link to it please


and



HAHAHAHA im sooo glad that england isnt a part of the EU (i cross my fingers that im still right about this)


another reason to stay out!


losers!
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Post by NoNo »

i got most of it from a radio conversation with the author of the paper article, but heres the original, which i havent read so there might be some discrepancies

http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/ ... IStPSk.asp
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Post by Lachlan »

Zhut wrote:Somehow, this doesn't surprise me. I will decline to comment further.
I was trying to let this slide without comment, but I'm sorry that I can't. I realize that my political views on this board are in the minority, so I'll just put on my flame-proof suit now.

The newspaper article NoNo linked to and the information in his post seems be a bit reactionary.

The little bit of information I've found on this agreement doesn't make it sound anything like NoNo is trying to make it sound. The agreement sounds like any other extradition agreement in that it prevents criminals from fleeing US prosecution by hiding in another country. Does anyone remember Ira Einhorn, who fled to France after murdering his girlfriend in 1977 and wasn't brought back to the US to be prosecuted for the crime for more than 20 years?

In this article, it states that the US can request the records mentioned, be present at interrogations, and ask questions. It doesn't say anything about not having the right to a lawyer or giving up the right to not incriminate yourself (both of which are basic rights afforded US citizens under the Bill of Rights).

My guess is that any leeway given to US investigators will be with the approval of the Irish government, anything less would be giving up sovereignty to the US goverment. I can't see that happening.
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Post by Zhut »

I should have referenced the article before posting. My apologies.
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Post by Myrlin »

I'm confused why don't I see Zhut's comment that got quoted later?
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Post by Zhut »

I deleted it
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Post by Lachlan »

I think I can see where the confusion and overreaction comes from..

Several times in the articles written, the author has thrown out references to the Guantanamo Bay detainees which the Supreme Court has said can be held without a lawyer if they are classified as 'enemy combatants'. I don't agree with the US governments ability to do that and I think it's wrong.

However, throwing out those references while talking about this US-EU agreement has given people the impression that this agreement gives the US the authority to throw Irish citizens in Guantanamo Bay without a lawyer and let's them be tortured until they confess.

Reading carefully, I don't think the agreement allows that at all. Someone tell me if I'm wrong.
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Post by NoNo »

I wasnt saying that at all lol.

I was simply relaying what I heard in da paper :P

to be honest the cia shouldn't have any ability to do anything over ere, no offence to any1 who even gets the slightest hint of such, but the american government are gung-ho, they like to do everything on their own, its a rare occasion that I see them sharing information....eg if they want some1 searched they can make a request to the goverment to do so, but to give a foreign power, and I mean any power, id be saying the same things if it were another country, the right to interrogate foreign citizens, is just ridiculous.
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Post by NoNo »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/ ... IStPSk.asp

http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/ ... s5FWAE.asp

really is unbelieveable

irish examiner is a respected Irish Newspaper aswell, not a tabloid, or an entity that would make this up.
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Post by a4nic8er »

If they want you, they will just snatch you.

If you aren't an American, none of the USA's constitutional rights apply. If you are an American, they are trying to override those rights with Laws such as the Homeland Security Bill and Patriot Act.

There are already UK and Australian citizens who have been held incommunicado at Quantanimo Bay for years. What have their govenments done about it? Nothing.
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Post by NoNo »

us are too powerful, no1 will do anything that will damage their relationship with the us....god forbid.....
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Post by DAGGERZ »

erm thats wrong
maggie thatcher did when she fucked the argies out of the falklands the us asked her to back down and she told them where to go hence the falklands is still british. as for guantanamo bay there should be of more of them put every suspect in there IMO i have had enough of the eastern europeans trying to dictate the western way of life .

infact im really gonna inflate the post.
do i agree with iraq .damn straight i do fair play to bush for having the balls to do what no other ldr would finish what his dad could'nt.
the SAS had saddam the first time but snr bottled it.
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Post by SEAL7 »

ahmen
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Post by NoNo »

ok ill respond to this.......

the war in iraq may have been right ethically, but it was NOT justifiable. Every single reason that was given for invading Iraq has proved wrong, and has just fuled the hatred that the muslim world has for the us. As for Bush having balls for invading iraq, it was all about the oil simple as.

And daggerz, I couldn't disagree with you more. The fact that the "civilized" world doesn't condone torture, and denial of basic rights (whether human rights or rights under law) is what set's us apart from the terrorists. When the people of the world who are claiming to be justfied and honorable cross this line, then they become no better then the terrorists whom they are fighting.
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