In the Butt...

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Re: In the Butt...

Post by satransisuu »

rape specifically, the vehicle they use for attack can change wether its a date rape drug, finding people online, or having candy, puppy, and a van
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by Solid Rock »

satransisuu wrote:rape specifically, the vehicle they use for attack can change wether its a date rape drug, finding people online, or having candy, puppy, and a van
As I've said though, only very few rapists actually plan to commit the crime, the vast majority just sorta snap at some point and force themselves on someone. Much like murder it is often a crime of passion and as such there is little one can do to prevent it. Although if you wanna look at the raw statistics women are actually safer from rape if they are surrounded by strangers rather than people they know. And men are safer if they don't drop the soap :P.
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by satransisuu »

again thats speculative i would like to see some stats showing that most rape is spure of the moment and not planned.
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by Pantho »

satransisuu wrote:again thats speculative i would like to see some stats showing that most rape is spure of the moment and not planned.
Relationship of Offender to Victim (Tables 27 and 33)
Well Known: 33%
Casual Acquaintance:31%
Don't Know: 4%
Stranger: 32%
Overall: 65% of offenders were non-strangers
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by Pantho »

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Re: In the Butt...

Post by Sælie »

satransisuu wrote:again thats speculative i would like to see some stats showing that most rape is spure of the moment and not planned.

I could find it somewhere I'm sure, but it is something I remember learning in multiple courses while going through my psych degree. It is actually more often that spur of the moment rapes occur based upon 'anger' rape or 'opportunity' rape. I'll see if I can't find something in one of my text books.....*goes to check*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GAh! I must have sold back my books that I was thinking of. But this is what I found in two of my many books:

"Surveys also suggest that most rape victims are young: 29 percent are under 11 years old, 32 percent are between the ages of 11 and 17, 29 percent are between 18 and 29. More than 80 percent of the victims are raped by acquaintances or relatives (NCVS, 1998; Koss, 1992)."

Comer, R. 2005. Fundamentals of abnormal psychology fourth edition. Worth Publishers: New York. page 138.

--------------------

"FBI statistics reveal that the number of rapes in the United States has risen dramatically--more than 102,000 cases were reported in 1990; there was one reported rape for every 270 women in 1995; and an average of one rape every five minutes (FBI, 1991, 1996; U.S. Senate Commitee on the Judiciary, 1991)."

This shows the trend in criminal activity in just rape over the course of 5 years (as someone was stating that criminal activity has lessened?) Now this must be stated that this is only among REPORTED rapes. Men DO get raped, and this does not take same-sex rapes into consideration, nor does it take into consideration men getting raped, or those who are too embarrassed or scared to report rape. So the actual instance of rape might be much higher than is printed.

"Some experts believe approximately 90 percent of rapes go unreported (Gibbs, 1991)"

There is a pie chart on the same page as both of those quotes stating the following percentages of "Who Perpetrates Rape?":
29%-Aquaintances
22%-Strangers
16%-Relative not in immediate family
11%-Father or stepfather
10%-Boyfriend or ex-boyfriend
9%-Husband or ex-husband
3%-Not sure/Refused

"Date rape may account for the majority of all rapes. Many victims may be reluctant to report such an attack; they feel responsible--at least in part--because they made a date with their attacker."


"Men who try to coerce women into intercourse share certain characteristics (Craig, 1990; Hall, 1996; Hall, Windover & Maramba, 1998). They tend to (1) actively create the situation in which sexual encounters may occur; (2) interpret women's friendliness as provocation or their protests as insincerity; (3) try to manipulate women into sexual favors by using drugs or alcohol; (4) attribute failed attempts at sexual encounters to perceived negative features of the woman, thereby protecting their egos, (5) come from environments of parental neglect or physical or sexual abuse; (6) initiate coitus earlier than men who are not sexually aggressive; and (7) have more sexual partners than males who are not sexually aggressive. Many men who do not rape also have these charateristics. Indeed, when asked to indicate the likelihood that they would rape if assured that they would not be caught and punished, about 35 percent of college males reported some likelihood and 20 percent indicated fairly high likelihood (Malamuth, 1981)."

And the key thing that I was actually looking up:

"The power rapist, comprising 55 percent of those studied, is primarily attempting to compensate for feelings of personal or sexual inadequacy by trying to intimidate his victims.

The anger rapist, comprising of 40 percent of those studied, is angry at women in general; the victim is merely a convenient target.

The sadistic rapist, comprising of only 5 percent of those studied, derives satisfaction from inflicting pain and may torture or mutilate the victim. (Source: Data from Groth, Burgess & Holstrom, 1977)" (Based upon a study of 133 rapists)

Sue, David, Derald Wing Sue, & Stanley Sue. 2000. Understanding abnormal behavior sixth edition. Houghton Mifflin Company: Boston. pages 320-322.

It is the sadistic rapist that you most likely see the preemptive thoughts of the rape occur. You also see a bit of preemtive though in the power rapist when it comes to things such as date rape.

-------------------

Does this help enlighten a bit? I know these are fairly old resources, but this does give an idea of where these thoughts and ideas are coming from.
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by Sælie »

also from that site:
75% of male students and 55%
of female students involved in
acquaintance rape had been
drinking or using drugs.
Generally a student doesn't plan on getting a girl drunk then screwing her...its just happens to be an opportunity becasue she's willing...and unfortunately sometimes, both parties involved are drunk and therefore the rape generally doesn't count if the male gets a good enough lawyer to prove that they were both drunk enough to not fully be aware of what was going on.
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by Solid Rock »

Sælie wrote:
also from that site:
75% of male students and 55%
of female students involved in
acquaintance rape had been
drinking or using drugs.
Generally a student doesn't plan on getting a girl drunk then screwing her...its just happens to be an opportunity becasue she's willing...and unfortunately sometimes, both parties involved are drunk and therefore the rape generally doesn't count if the male gets a good enough lawyer to prove that they were both drunk enough to not fully be aware of what was going on.
Rape is often an accusation tossed about by women who cannot come to terms with having done something stupid while drunk though. Its far to easy to get sympathy in court and its almost impossible to prove whether or not it was consensual. Its sad when they cant just live with their mistakes and it ties up the courts who should be trying to help real victims.

If both parties were drunk and willing, or even if just the women was it is not rape. Yes there may be some serious regrets in the morning but no matter how drunk she was, as long as she consented it was not a crime.
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by Lachlan »

Solid Rock wrote:If both parties were drunk and willing, or even if just the women was it is not rape. Yes there may be some serious regrets in the morning but no matter how drunk she was, as long as she consented it was not a crime.
So you're saying that a woman who consents under the influence of a drug that lowers your inhibitions and impairs your judgement isn't rape?

Not according to this article:
What EVERY GUY Must Know About Date Rape wrote:So let’s recap quickly:

Not stopping when she is indicating that she wants you to stop, be it with words, actions or both, is rape. If she seems hesitant don’t try to convince her to give in, just stop!

Just because a girl has had sex with you in the past does not mean she has consented to having sex with you whenever you want it. Forcing the issue could result in you being charged with rape.

Just because a girl is your girlfriend does not mean she owes you sex on demand. Push it when she doesn’t want it and you could be charged with rape.

If you get a girl drunk or high and then get together with her you have committed a sexual assault. If you do this and then have sex with her it is rape.

If you do not get a girl drunk or high but you know she is when you have sex you have committed rape.

If you are unaware that a girl is drunk or high and you have sex with her you could be charged with rape.

Even if you too are drunk or high when you have sex with a girl who is drunk or high you could be charged with rape. It is not a sufficient defense to say, “I was wasted too!”
In date rape scenarios many guys really don’t feel that they have crossed a line or done anything wrong and this is the biggest part of the problem. Society still sends a very mixed message on this topic with many people feeling that date rape is most often the result of miscommunication or misunderstanding rather than a true act of criminal intent. Regardless of society's confusion the law remains clear and we want to lay it on the line for all you guys out there in a no-uncertain-terms kind of way. Guys, believe it or not it is in your best interest to really get it where date rape is concerned because a date rape conviction is still a sex crime conviction and can follow you for the rest of your life.
Just for the record, this thread isn't funny anymore. It should just die, IMHO.
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by Sælie »

Lachlan wrote:
So you're saying that a woman who consents under the influence of a drug that lowers your inhibitions and impairs your judgement isn't rape?
That *is* part of most laws, but unfortunately where I live, the police only asked fraternity brothers about the incident and found the guy not guilty...on 3 counts of rape even though one girl still had a pair of her panties that she turned in.

I agree, if both people are drunk, and their impaired judgment says go ahead, lets screw, then that is both their faults, deal with it. If a person decides, yes I want to screw, and then decides later that it was a mistake, they have to deal with it. Though this 'person' can be male or female. Rape isn't selective to only women being victims.

Maybe the girl in the video raped the guy.....in the butt!

And I do agree Lachlan, this thread lost its funny pages ago, but on the flip side, I think its good that people are willing to talk about something that is taboo in most cultures. I'm glad that there are people here that are interested in fact and not just myths that people hear on the street.
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by Solid Rock »

Lachlan wrote:So you're saying that a woman who consents under the influence of a drug that lowers your inhibitions and impairs your judgement isn't rape?
It isn't, anyone who drinks should be prepared to deal with the consequences that come from getting drunk. If someone took advantage of her being to drunk to resist or being passed out drunk that a different story. But if she has consented of her own free will it is not rape, regardless of how wasted she might have been. Charging a person with rape following consensual sex under the influence of alcohol is essentially the same as charging you neighbours with trespassing after you invited them inside. That article is formulated on the premise that mushy courts usually side with the alleged victim in cases such as this, legally however if consent has been given freely it is not a crime.

And yes, this thread isn't funny anny more but it doesn't have to be either. There's no harm in discussing a serious subject for once.
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by Myrlin »

Solid Rock wrote:That article is formulated on the premise that mushy courts usually side with the alleged victim in cases such as this, legally however if consent has been given freely it is not a crime.
I don't understand what you mean by "legally however if the consent has been given freely it is not a crime." because if the court sided with the victim that is the definition of a crime. That's like saying "Even though the court said I was guilty of murder, the victim was a child molestor so I didn't really do anything wrong". You're only fooling yourself and it doesn't change the fact that you committed a crime.
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by satransisuu »

thanks for the info pantho and saelie, i always thought that was BS because i first heard it on some family guy episode. As for your comment solid i would agree that if someone is drunk and consented regardless of their sex they need to deal with it. This however is not how the legal system works. I have taken classes on wrongful convictions and its sad how easy it is to convict an innocent person. I would recommend to anyone that either they dont fornicate while one party is under the influence, or video tape the "event" and hand that to your DA.

also myrlin i think you read that wrong, solids premise is that the sex was of consent. You cant consent to murder. If a court convicts a person they are guilty of the crime but a person has a chance for an appeal. It is true that many juries will side with a victim which is sad, not that i am a sexist or heartless. There was that case in the south of the escort who cried rape on some frat boys. The DNA evidence didnt match and there were many inconsistencies in the girls story.

This is a great discussion, i have learned some interesting things. Everyone has been civil so i see no reason to let the thread die or have an admin lock it.
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by Solid Rock »

Myrlin wrote:
Solid Rock wrote:That article is formulated on the premise that mushy courts usually side with the alleged victim in cases such as this, legally however if consent has been given freely it is not a crime.
I don't understand what you mean by "legally however if the consent has been given freely it is not a crime." because if the court sided with the victim that is the definition of a crime. That's like saying "Even though the court said I was guilty of murder, the victim was a child molestor so I didn't really do anything wrong". You're only fooling yourself and it doesn't change the fact that you committed a crime.
Legally consent given under the influence is still consent, however consent is difficult to prove and in the absence of evidence one way or another the courts will tend to go mushy an side with the alleged victim. Its more similar to saying "even though the court found my guilty of murder the guy had driven off a cliffside while I was home asleep.", sadly the court system is quite flawed and innocent people tend to get convicted quite often. Particularly where the victim is easy to sympathise with, there was a story some years ago about a man who spent 4 years on death row despite the fact that he was in jail for another offence on the night of the murder. Granted his defence attorney must've been quite bad but things like that just shouldn't happen, just like a court shouldn't convict people just because their sex partners had a change of hearth when the sobered up.
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Re: In the Butt...

Post by Lachlan »

Solid Rock wrote:Legally consent given under the influence is still consent
We may be about to descend into the particulars of laws in different countries and/or states, but i'm pretty sure this is incorrect in Texas. You might want to verify this where you live.
Texas law defines sexual assault as penetration with any object by a man or woman against a man or woman without consent. Consent implies the specific communication of yes. Silence does not indicate consent. Consent is not based on what the subject is wearing, not based on reputation, but must be freely given.

There are three categories of people who cannot give consent: children (Texas Penal Code defines child as a person under 17 years of age who, for purposes of the sexual assault statute is not the spouse of the actor); persons under the influence of alcohol or other drugs (impaired, intoxicated, incapacitated); and persons who are mentally incapacitated.

If consent is obtained by force, this invalidates the consent. Force includes threats, intimidation, emotional pressure and coercion.
Legally, someone who is under the influence of drugs or alcohol cannot give consent and silence is not consent. Pretty clear to me.
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